Comments on: The Benefits of Failure http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/ Pieces of the productivity puzzle. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:41:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Odds of Success : Productivity501 http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-135309 Odds of Success : Productivity501 Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:01:50 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-135309 [...] When you approach your success goals with the idea that you will need to learn from some failures along the way, you can be much more realistic about what you are trying to achieve.  It is also [...] [...] When you approach your success goals with the idea that you will need to learn from some failures along the way, you can be much more realistic about what you are trying to achieve.  It is also [...]

]]> By: Mark Shead http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81353 Mark Shead Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:53:05 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81353 @Julia - I was talking to a group of community college teachers a few months ago and asked how the students have changed over the years. They all said that the biggest difference they see with current students is that they are completely focused on passing the test and not at all focused on learning. They attributed this to the no child left behind test centric focus. @Julia – I was talking to a group of community college teachers a few months ago and asked how the students have changed over the years. They all said that the biggest difference they see with current students is that they are completely focused on passing the test and not at all focused on learning. They attributed this to the no child left behind test centric focus.

]]> By: Mark Shead http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81352 Mark Shead Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:50:40 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81352 @Jakob - If you talk to teachers in the US I think you will find that there is a very big over emphasis on self esteem. In fact it is very difficult for a student to fail a grade because the current theory is that the damage to the student's self esteem is more detrimental than just passing them on to the next grade. Also the study we were reading didn't say that the people with higher scores were any more accurate in accessing their own performance. It wasn't a matter of asking them to "guess" their own score. It was a matter of asking them how skilled they were in a particular subject. The students from other countries knew what it took to be really good at the subject and saw how far they could go. I think this is because the teachers focused on skills instead of trying to make them feel good. The US students evidently didn't know how much better they could be and assumed they were at the top. I think this is because the teachers were focusing on how the kids would feel instead of on their ability to master skills. I understand your point about people who are skilled being better able to rank themselves in that skill, but that wasn't directly what this was measuring. @Jakob – If you talk to teachers in the US I think you will find that there is a very big over emphasis on self esteem. In fact it is very difficult for a student to fail a grade because the current theory is that the damage to the student’s self esteem is more detrimental than just passing them on to the next grade.

Also the study we were reading didn’t say that the people with higher scores were any more accurate in accessing their own performance. It wasn’t a matter of asking them to “guess” their own score. It was a matter of asking them how skilled they were in a particular subject.

The students from other countries knew what it took to be really good at the subject and saw how far they could go. I think this is because the teachers focused on skills instead of trying to make them feel good. The US students evidently didn’t know how much better they could be and assumed they were at the top. I think this is because the teachers were focusing on how the kids would feel instead of on their ability to master skills.

I understand your point about people who are skilled being better able to rank themselves in that skill, but that wasn’t directly what this was measuring.

]]> By: Mark Shead http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81351 Mark Shead Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:40:35 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81351 @DeathToFailure - Well if Harvard and other top schools represent the top 1% of students, it is realistic that any of those students who grew up in an average school will have always been at the top of their class--often in every single area of study. @DeathToFailure – Well if Harvard and other top schools represent the top 1% of students, it is realistic that any of those students who grew up in an average school will have always been at the top of their class–often in every single area of study.

]]> By: Julia http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81350 Julia Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:28:57 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81350 No wonder students are coming into the colleges so underprepared. They already feel fine about themselves, so they have no incentive to try to improve. No wonder students are coming into the colleges so underprepared. They already feel fine about themselves, so they have no incentive to try to improve.

]]> By: Matt http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81349 Matt Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:19:41 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81349 The biggest benefit to failure is that you know one way that isn't the right way to answer the problem. Cross if off your list and take a different approach. I agree that children need to be given a good environment to learn to fail and benefit from it though I think that needs to be more at home than at any educational institution. The biggest benefit to failure is that you know one way that isn’t the right way to answer the problem. Cross if off your list and take a different approach. I agree that children need to be given a good environment to learn to fail and benefit from it though I think that needs to be more at home than at any educational institution.

]]> By: Jakob http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81344 Jakob Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:31:15 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81344 This is a wrong-headed conclusion. In all areas, and in test after test, people who aren't good at something are also much less accurate in assessing their own performance. Look at studies done on SAT scores, for instance -- same thing. Low scores think they did well, and the higher you go, the better they are at knowing their position. Has nothing to do with the US particularly or self-esteem. This is a wrong-headed conclusion. In all areas, and in test after test, people who aren’t good at something are also much less accurate in assessing their own performance.

Look at studies done on SAT scores, for instance — same thing. Low scores think they did well, and the higher you go, the better they are at knowing their position.

Has nothing to do with the US particularly or self-esteem.

]]> By: DeathToFailure! http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81339 DeathToFailure! Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:10:50 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81339 There must be some really serious problem in the educational system and in the families if students as late as attending Harvard have to lean to cope with failing. Other thought: What if "failure" itself just becomes meaningless because teachers and students alike explore the world of the subject? For a fine example watch http://mediatedcultures.net/ksudigg/?p=174, it is an hour well spent! There must be some really serious problem in the educational system and in the families if students as late as attending Harvard have to lean to cope with failing.

Other thought: What if “failure” itself just becomes meaningless because teachers and students alike explore the world of the subject? For a fine example watch http://mediatedcultures.net/ksudigg/?p=174, it is an hour well spent!

]]> By: adora http://www.productivity501.com/the-benefits-of-failure/333/comment-page-1/#comment-81322 adora Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:15:50 +0000 http://www.productivity501.com/?p=333#comment-81322 If you don't know where you are wrong, you can never correct it. If you don’t know where you are wrong, you can never correct it.

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