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	<title>Comments on: Lowering Gas Prices</title>
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	<description>Pieces of the productivity puzzle.</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Shead</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-49300</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 13:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-49300</guid>
		<description>@Gilbert - I think a better way to look at it is this:  Prices are driven by demand, but they are also driven by projected future demand.  If oil is at $130 a barrel today and I think it will go up to $145 in 30 days.  I might make an agreement to buy oil for $135 over the next 30 days.  

If everyone does this, then the price may stay high (temporarily) even if the demand goes down.  However, as far as I can tell this is only a short term thing and eventually the demand will determine the price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gilbert &#8211; I think a better way to look at it is this:  Prices are driven by demand, but they are also driven by projected future demand.  If oil is at $130 a barrel today and I think it will go up to $145 in 30 days.  I might make an agreement to buy oil for $135 over the next 30 days.  </p>
<p>If everyone does this, then the price may stay high (temporarily) even if the demand goes down.  However, as far as I can tell this is only a short term thing and eventually the demand will determine the price.</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-49287</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 12:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-49287</guid>
		<description>I am still curious about the stock markets part in all of this. I know nothing about futures or how it all REALLY works other than it involves money , investors and poeple wanting to make more money. Am I wrong in thinking it is investors putting money in the furures market gambling that the price will go up , thus making them more money when they sell , thus driving the price up?
 Please tell me I am wrong , because if I am write , then really the price of oil is driven not only by demand for it , but also by investors wanting to make a buck off of it at everyone elses expense?
 Is this correct or incorrect understanding? Because if it is , it means our very own greed is driving the price up as well as the demand.
 Please let e know.

 Thanks , Gilbert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still curious about the stock markets part in all of this. I know nothing about futures or how it all REALLY works other than it involves money , investors and poeple wanting to make more money. Am I wrong in thinking it is investors putting money in the furures market gambling that the price will go up , thus making them more money when they sell , thus driving the price up?<br />
 Please tell me I am wrong , because if I am write , then really the price of oil is driven not only by demand for it , but also by investors wanting to make a buck off of it at everyone elses expense?<br />
 Is this correct or incorrect understanding? Because if it is , it means our very own greed is driving the price up as well as the demand.<br />
 Please let e know.</p>
<p> Thanks , Gilbert</p>
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		<title>By: Gas Prices? - Page 18 - Political Forum - US &#38; World Political Discussion Forums</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-48963</link>
		<dc:creator>Gas Prices? - Page 18 - Political Forum - US &#38; World Political Discussion Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 03:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-48963</guid>
		<description>[...] take into account the increase in demand. So in the end, everyone is worse of instead of better.  Lowering Gas Prices : Productivity501  Lookout for that bold part, we look to be heading for it, that just happens to be the last year [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] take into account the increase in demand. So in the end, everyone is worse of instead of better.  Lowering Gas Prices : Productivity501  Lookout for that bold part, we look to be heading for it, that just happens to be the last year [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MIke</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-44693</link>
		<dc:creator>MIke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 15:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-44693</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a great idea.  We have so many ways to become less dependent on foriegn oil.  For years the republicans have tried to drill in ANWR for oil in an area that is so small and this has been blocked by democrats and enviromentalists (not to mention the offshore opportunities).  No one wants on the left wants to entertain this idea because they believe that this betrays their own belief system.  It is this belief system that has gotten us in this quagmire.  I wonder how much fuel is spent on getting the crude from the middle east to the US and other countries.  Why aren&#039;t enviromentalists decrying the middle eastern countries environmental disasters.  The answer is they are chicken and always hit the soft targets and avoid the root issues thinking that since they have done something, they have done the right thing.  Activity alone doesn&#039;t guarantee success.  

We only empower OPEC and the terrorist nations by buying their oil.  Why not drill in the US and (notice the word and) look for alternative ways of transportation and new fuel types or sources? Why don&#039;t you libs pressure on the democrats to solve the energy problem by working with the oil companies instead of trying to put them out of business in the US? Let&#039;s not forget that the dems are in control of congress and everything is out of control.  Hold their feet to the fire.   Why do you think that pulling the gun out of the holster and shooting your foot is the answer?

I am for lowering fuel consumption and finding alternative fuels and even alternative types of transportation, but my business relies on trucks to move heavy items.  Not every one works in an office.  Someone with a truck built that office building or home that you work out of.  Incidentally, I have already cut my fuel consumption by approx. 2/3 in the past 2 years.  You can control demand only so much then you have to shut down.  Is that what you want to do?  Shut down America.  Some are so ticked at our president that they are not thinking right.  Get out of your city and see the rest of the nation.  It is a big country and a great country and we are not perfect, but we are good people doing our best and the thugs are among us, but we can get past that garbage and regain common sense.

Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a great idea.  We have so many ways to become less dependent on foriegn oil.  For years the republicans have tried to drill in ANWR for oil in an area that is so small and this has been blocked by democrats and enviromentalists (not to mention the offshore opportunities).  No one wants on the left wants to entertain this idea because they believe that this betrays their own belief system.  It is this belief system that has gotten us in this quagmire.  I wonder how much fuel is spent on getting the crude from the middle east to the US and other countries.  Why aren&#8217;t enviromentalists decrying the middle eastern countries environmental disasters.  The answer is they are chicken and always hit the soft targets and avoid the root issues thinking that since they have done something, they have done the right thing.  Activity alone doesn&#8217;t guarantee success.  </p>
<p>We only empower OPEC and the terrorist nations by buying their oil.  Why not drill in the US and (notice the word and) look for alternative ways of transportation and new fuel types or sources? Why don&#8217;t you libs pressure on the democrats to solve the energy problem by working with the oil companies instead of trying to put them out of business in the US? Let&#8217;s not forget that the dems are in control of congress and everything is out of control.  Hold their feet to the fire.   Why do you think that pulling the gun out of the holster and shooting your foot is the answer?</p>
<p>I am for lowering fuel consumption and finding alternative fuels and even alternative types of transportation, but my business relies on trucks to move heavy items.  Not every one works in an office.  Someone with a truck built that office building or home that you work out of.  Incidentally, I have already cut my fuel consumption by approx. 2/3 in the past 2 years.  You can control demand only so much then you have to shut down.  Is that what you want to do?  Shut down America.  Some are so ticked at our president that they are not thinking right.  Get out of your city and see the rest of the nation.  It is a big country and a great country and we are not perfect, but we are good people doing our best and the thugs are among us, but we can get past that garbage and regain common sense.</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shead</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40156</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 19:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40156</guid>
		<description>@Curt - the developing countries raises a very interesting issue.  In the past the majority of the demand for gasoline came from the United States.  It looks like this could change in the future.  Right now I think the majority of oil is still coming to the US, so lowering demand here should lower the prices.  However in the future this might not be the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Curt &#8211; the developing countries raises a very interesting issue.  In the past the majority of the demand for gasoline came from the United States.  It looks like this could change in the future.  Right now I think the majority of oil is still coming to the US, so lowering demand here should lower the prices.  However in the future this might not be the case.</p>
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		<title>By: Curtis Carmack</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40154</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis Carmack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 19:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40154</guid>
		<description>Mark,

In addition to the effects of speculation, which most good analysts credit with adding $20-35 per barrel to the current price, we also have the very large issue of the percentage of demand that is coming from developing economies -- especially India and China. It is growth in oil consumption by these countries that has kept speculator interest in the oil market alive in the face of decreased demand in the U.S. and what looks like a recession here (which would normally spark a sharp selloff in futures). While there&#039;s not much we can do about demand growth elsewhere, I agree with you that we ought at least to try the virtues of controlling domestic demand.

Curt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>In addition to the effects of speculation, which most good analysts credit with adding $20-35 per barrel to the current price, we also have the very large issue of the percentage of demand that is coming from developing economies &#8212; especially India and China. It is growth in oil consumption by these countries that has kept speculator interest in the oil market alive in the face of decreased demand in the U.S. and what looks like a recession here (which would normally spark a sharp selloff in futures). While there&#8217;s not much we can do about demand growth elsewhere, I agree with you that we ought at least to try the virtues of controlling domestic demand.</p>
<p>Curt</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shead</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40153</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 19:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40153</guid>
		<description>@Ryan - So it is like supply and demand with time machines. :)  I see what you mean though.  The belief that prices will be high can keep them that way longer in a futures market--even if demand actually drops.  Good point.

@Infomom - I like the idea of a scooter, but I&#039;m not so excited about the safety.  I&#039;d like to see some ultra small cars that basically use a scooter engine, but have some type of frame to add protection.  The smart cars are kind of along the lines of what I think I&#039;d like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ryan &#8211; So it is like supply and demand with time machines. <img src='http://www.productivity501.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   I see what you mean though.  The belief that prices will be high can keep them that way longer in a futures market&#8211;even if demand actually drops.  Good point.</p>
<p>@Infomom &#8211; I like the idea of a scooter, but I&#8217;m not so excited about the safety.  I&#8217;d like to see some ultra small cars that basically use a scooter engine, but have some type of frame to add protection.  The smart cars are kind of along the lines of what I think I&#8217;d like.</p>
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		<title>By: infmom</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40152</link>
		<dc:creator>infmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 19:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40152</guid>
		<description>Another option is to get rid of gas guzzling vehicles.  The media here in Los Angeles are full of stories about people trading in SUVs and how hard it is for anyone to get rid of one these days.

Six years ago I bought a Vespa ET-4.  I now use that for as many trips as I can (which is any trip that doesn&#039;t involve ferrying large objects).  Even using premium gas I&#039;ve never paid more than $6 to fill the tank.  Contrast that with $60+ to fill up the car I otherwise would be driving.  A scooter might not be practical for everyday use in some climates, but out here it&#039;s ideal, and we see more and more of them on the road as time goes by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another option is to get rid of gas guzzling vehicles.  The media here in Los Angeles are full of stories about people trading in SUVs and how hard it is for anyone to get rid of one these days.</p>
<p>Six years ago I bought a Vespa ET-4.  I now use that for as many trips as I can (which is any trip that doesn&#8217;t involve ferrying large objects).  Even using premium gas I&#8217;ve never paid more than $6 to fill the tank.  Contrast that with $60+ to fill up the car I otherwise would be driving.  A scooter might not be practical for everyday use in some climates, but out here it&#8217;s ideal, and we see more and more of them on the road as time goes by.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Raaum</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40151</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Raaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 18:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40151</guid>
		<description>@Mark - My point is just that some part of the price of oil is not pure supply and demand, but the market&#039;s current perception and future speculation on supply and demand. 

If an oil speculator comes to the conclusion that the supply of oil is going to decrease dramatically 3 months from now and buys a whole bunch of oil futures on that basis, the price of oil will go up - REGARDLESS of whether or not that belief is true. The speculator will eat a big loss if the supply actually goes up or demand decreases. 

Furthermore, while the bottom will drop out eventually, even if there is no change in ACTUAL supply and demand, a futures market can maintain a sustained period of price increases if speculators buy futures on the belief that the price will go up, which causes the price to go up (increased demand for futures), which leads to more belief that the price will go up, and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark &#8211; My point is just that some part of the price of oil is not pure supply and demand, but the market&#8217;s current perception and future speculation on supply and demand. </p>
<p>If an oil speculator comes to the conclusion that the supply of oil is going to decrease dramatically 3 months from now and buys a whole bunch of oil futures on that basis, the price of oil will go up &#8211; REGARDLESS of whether or not that belief is true. The speculator will eat a big loss if the supply actually goes up or demand decreases. </p>
<p>Furthermore, while the bottom will drop out eventually, even if there is no change in ACTUAL supply and demand, a futures market can maintain a sustained period of price increases if speculators buy futures on the belief that the price will go up, which causes the price to go up (increased demand for futures), which leads to more belief that the price will go up, and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shead</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40146</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 16:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40146</guid>
		<description>@Ryan - Good point, but isn&#039;t that still pretty much the same as the stock market because of the way options work?

@Carl - They might decide to reduce output.  However right now, they are pretty much at their maximum production, so they couldn&#039;t increase production significantly even if they wanted to.  People like to blame OPEC, but demand is so high right now that OPEC isn&#039;t really doing anything to control the output.

As long as demand remains high, OPEC can stay together because everyone is making a lot of money.  If the price goes down, countries will start breaking from OPEC because they will want to sell more oil than what OPEC says they can sell.  I can&#039;t find the reference but I believe this happened in the late 80s.   

In fact having high prices right now is likely to make it harder to keep OPEC together if demand goes down.   Countries become addicted to the oil cashflow.  If demand goes down significantly and OPEC tells everyone to cut their output by 50% there is likely to be a few countries who decide they want to bring in more money by selling more oil regardless of what OPEC says.  Once one country does this others are likely to follow.

The point is that if you can do everything you need to do, not be inconvenienced, and use 1 gallon less per week, you can help drive the price down.  If we artificially drive the price down for a few months and make demand go up, we will end up with higher prices--even if it is lower for a few weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ryan &#8211; Good point, but isn&#8217;t that still pretty much the same as the stock market because of the way options work?</p>
<p>@Carl &#8211; They might decide to reduce output.  However right now, they are pretty much at their maximum production, so they couldn&#8217;t increase production significantly even if they wanted to.  People like to blame OPEC, but demand is so high right now that OPEC isn&#8217;t really doing anything to control the output.</p>
<p>As long as demand remains high, OPEC can stay together because everyone is making a lot of money.  If the price goes down, countries will start breaking from OPEC because they will want to sell more oil than what OPEC says they can sell.  I can&#8217;t find the reference but I believe this happened in the late 80s.   </p>
<p>In fact having high prices right now is likely to make it harder to keep OPEC together if demand goes down.   Countries become addicted to the oil cashflow.  If demand goes down significantly and OPEC tells everyone to cut their output by 50% there is likely to be a few countries who decide they want to bring in more money by selling more oil regardless of what OPEC says.  Once one country does this others are likely to follow.</p>
<p>The point is that if you can do everything you need to do, not be inconvenienced, and use 1 gallon less per week, you can help drive the price down.  If we artificially drive the price down for a few months and make demand go up, we will end up with higher prices&#8211;even if it is lower for a few weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40142</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 16:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40142</guid>
		<description>So I&#039;m confused: if everyone reduces their gasoline consumption by 1 gal per week, gas prices will go down because the demand for crude oil will go down, but then OPEC decides to reduce the amount of crude oil they export, and prices go back up, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I&#8217;m confused: if everyone reduces their gasoline consumption by 1 gal per week, gas prices will go down because the demand for crude oil will go down, but then OPEC decides to reduce the amount of crude oil they export, and prices go back up, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Raaum</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/lowering-gas-prices/786/comment-page-1/#comment-40137</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Raaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 16:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=786#comment-40137</guid>
		<description>While it doesn&#039;t enormously change your analysis, oil is not simply a market commodity, but a *futures* market commodity. That is, the price of oil on the market is not only influenced by current supply and demand, but also by what speculators a few months ago thought supply and demand was going to be and what speculators now think the supply and demand will be in the future....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it doesn&#8217;t enormously change your analysis, oil is not simply a market commodity, but a *futures* market commodity. That is, the price of oil on the market is not only influenced by current supply and demand, but also by what speculators a few months ago thought supply and demand was going to be and what speculators now think the supply and demand will be in the future&#8230;.</p>
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