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	<title>Comments on: Personal Development: How important is college?</title>
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	<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/</link>
	<description>Pieces of the productivity puzzle.</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Leddy</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-117783</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Leddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 18:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-117783</guid>
		<description>I second Matthew Schmeer&#039;s suggestion about David Foster Wallace.

Andrew Sullivan&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Daily Dish&lt;/i&gt; has some recent posts about the value of a liberal arts education. From a reader who went to Carleton College:&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;m only 33, and many of the technical skills I learned both in biology and in computer science courses in college are obsolete just 11 years later.  With the job market as uncertain and changing as it is now, it&#039;s many of my &quot;distribution&quot; courses and the ones I took for fun that are becoming the most useful.  Most importantly, though, Carleton&#039;s emphasis on writing skills, which seem to be endangered at many universities, has been a major difference-maker in my career.  That alone has opened numerous opportunities for me.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/in-defense-of-the-liberal-arts-ctd.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;In Defense of the Liberal Arts, Ctd.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second Matthew Schmeer&#8217;s suggestion about David Foster Wallace.</p>
<p>Andrew Sullivan&#8217;s <i>Daily Dish</i> has some recent posts about the value of a liberal arts education. From a reader who went to Carleton College:<br />
<blockquote>I&#8217;m only 33, and many of the technical skills I learned both in biology and in computer science courses in college are obsolete just 11 years later.  With the job market as uncertain and changing as it is now, it&#8217;s many of my &#8220;distribution&#8221; courses and the ones I took for fun that are becoming the most useful.  Most importantly, though, Carleton&#8217;s emphasis on writing skills, which seem to be endangered at many universities, has been a major difference-maker in my career.  That alone has opened numerous opportunities for me.</p>
<p><a href="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/in-defense-of-the-liberal-arts-ctd.html" rel="nofollow">In Defense of the Liberal Arts, Ctd.</a></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mark Shead</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116516</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 14:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116516</guid>
		<description>@Matthew - I agree for the most part, but I think we are encouraging a bunch of people to go to college that really aren&#039;t college material and it brings down the educational experience for everyone else.  As a result, college is watered down and doesn&#039;t give the same of life preparation that it once did.

@Stephen - It sounds more like you are looking for vocational training.  Traditionally this isn&#039;t what most universities were designed to teach.  For years MIT taught their introduction programming course in Lisp--a language that is anything but common.  Their rational was that it is a good language to learn in and forced you to think in different ways about programing. 

Universities are starting to shift toward vocational training.  Just in the last few years MIT replaced their programing course with one based on Java. I think this type of shift is detrimental in the long term.  A university degree should show that you have the capability to learn just about anything and that you have a good solid foundation in a particular area.  A vocational degree should show that you know how to do a particular set of tasks based on current practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matthew &#8211; I agree for the most part, but I think we are encouraging a bunch of people to go to college that really aren&#8217;t college material and it brings down the educational experience for everyone else.  As a result, college is watered down and doesn&#8217;t give the same of life preparation that it once did.</p>
<p>@Stephen &#8211; It sounds more like you are looking for vocational training.  Traditionally this isn&#8217;t what most universities were designed to teach.  For years MIT taught their introduction programming course in Lisp&#8211;a language that is anything but common.  Their rational was that it is a good language to learn in and forced you to think in different ways about programing. </p>
<p>Universities are starting to shift toward vocational training.  Just in the last few years MIT replaced their programing course with one based on Java. I think this type of shift is detrimental in the long term.  A university degree should show that you have the capability to learn just about anything and that you have a good solid foundation in a particular area.  A vocational degree should show that you know how to do a particular set of tasks based on current practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Clarke</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116509</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 13:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116509</guid>
		<description>Until University begins to teach how things are done in the real world I don&#039;t see much value in getting an education. I recently sat in on a marketing lecture at a noted University and was shocked to listen to the information being taught. It was outdated and after the class in a private discussion with the Professor he admitted that a lot of the information did not apply in today&#039;s world. The system needs a massive change. Doctors are getting educated but learn nothing on natural products or how to run a business. Business students are getting degrees and shocked when they realize most of the material they studied doesn&#039;t apply.

Years ago people were hired based on their education...today people are being hired based on their experience. This is a great topic by the way and one that I find usually brings out the extremists on both sides.

Regards,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until University begins to teach how things are done in the real world I don&#8217;t see much value in getting an education. I recently sat in on a marketing lecture at a noted University and was shocked to listen to the information being taught. It was outdated and after the class in a private discussion with the Professor he admitted that a lot of the information did not apply in today&#8217;s world. The system needs a massive change. Doctors are getting educated but learn nothing on natural products or how to run a business. Business students are getting degrees and shocked when they realize most of the material they studied doesn&#8217;t apply.</p>
<p>Years ago people were hired based on their education&#8230;today people are being hired based on their experience. This is a great topic by the way and one that I find usually brings out the extremists on both sides.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
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		<title>By: Ariane Benefit</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116426</link>
		<dc:creator>Ariane Benefit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 20:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116426</guid>
		<description>Great topic Mark!  Thanks for posting my reply!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great topic Mark!  Thanks for posting my reply!</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Schmeer</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116417</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Schmeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116417</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in agreement with Michael Leddy (I&#039;m a community college English professor).  College is not merely about getting a degree; it&#039;s about learning how to think about a subject in all it&#039;s messy glory, to analyze and pull apart and recombine and extract knowledge.  Each field does this in different ways, but ultimately, it is about learning not just how to think, but what to think about.  David Foster Wallace said it best back in 2005 when he gave the commencement address at Kenyon College.  Go read this:

http://www.marginalia.org/dfw_kenyon_commencement.html

If you have any doubt about the value of a college education after reading this, then perhaps you are defining &quot;value&quot; too narrowly.

Yes, the primary physical benefit of a college degree is the potential financial payoff.  But financial gain is not the purpose of college.  &quot;Making a life,&quot; as Leddy quotes his old professor, is about learning that the world is a messy place, the world does not owe you anything, and that, ultimately, you will be judged by what you do and the decisions you make.  Living a life is easy; making a life is hard work.

Of course, the school of hard knocks is cheaper.  So is the military.  Both are excellent avenues to learn the same things.  But not everyone is fit for military service, and the school of hard knocks rejects a lot of people on principle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in agreement with Michael Leddy (I&#8217;m a community college English professor).  College is not merely about getting a degree; it&#8217;s about learning how to think about a subject in all it&#8217;s messy glory, to analyze and pull apart and recombine and extract knowledge.  Each field does this in different ways, but ultimately, it is about learning not just how to think, but what to think about.  David Foster Wallace said it best back in 2005 when he gave the commencement address at Kenyon College.  Go read this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marginalia.org/dfw_kenyon_commencement.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.marginalia.org/dfw_kenyon_commencement.html</a></p>
<p>If you have any doubt about the value of a college education after reading this, then perhaps you are defining &#8220;value&#8221; too narrowly.</p>
<p>Yes, the primary physical benefit of a college degree is the potential financial payoff.  But financial gain is not the purpose of college.  &#8220;Making a life,&#8221; as Leddy quotes his old professor, is about learning that the world is a messy place, the world does not owe you anything, and that, ultimately, you will be judged by what you do and the decisions you make.  Living a life is easy; making a life is hard work.</p>
<p>Of course, the school of hard knocks is cheaper.  So is the military.  Both are excellent avenues to learn the same things.  But not everyone is fit for military service, and the school of hard knocks rejects a lot of people on principle.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Cruz</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116410</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Cruz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 17:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116410</guid>
		<description>I believe the mistake many people make is that believing a degree will hand them a successful career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the mistake many people make is that believing a degree will hand them a successful career.</p>
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		<title>By: Anelly</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116379</link>
		<dc:creator>Anelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 08:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116379</guid>
		<description>I think depends. I read some month ago about a successful internet marketer which was considered by friends and people around him a &quot;nobody&quot; just a person without education. I feel sorry i don&#039;t have the link to provide to this person, but the idea is that he put a stop and made something with his life..even he was not prepared in school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think depends. I read some month ago about a successful internet marketer which was considered by friends and people around him a &#8220;nobody&#8221; just a person without education. I feel sorry i don&#8217;t have the link to provide to this person, but the idea is that he put a stop and made something with his life..even he was not prepared in school.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Levasseur</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116329</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Levasseur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 19:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116329</guid>
		<description>Networking is great, but surely there must be less expensive ways of doing it.

Remember, college often leads to starting out in life not only with a leg up on your resume and knowledge, but also  brick holding you back in the form of debt. That debt limits choices, taking away the opportunity of entrepreneurialism away from the young and energetic who would otherwise be best suited for such risk taking.

Worse, if one doesn&#039;t complete college for one reason or another, the debt remains without the benefits of a degree. And student loans can&#039;t be discharged via bankruptcy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Networking is great, but surely there must be less expensive ways of doing it.</p>
<p>Remember, college often leads to starting out in life not only with a leg up on your resume and knowledge, but also  brick holding you back in the form of debt. That debt limits choices, taking away the opportunity of entrepreneurialism away from the young and energetic who would otherwise be best suited for such risk taking.</p>
<p>Worse, if one doesn&#8217;t complete college for one reason or another, the debt remains without the benefits of a degree. And student loans can&#8217;t be discharged via bankruptcy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Shead</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116321</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Shead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116321</guid>
		<description>@MattWilsontv Good advice.  I wish I had made better use of networking when I was getting my undergrad degree.  Having studied at both a Community College and at Harvard, there is some difference in what is taught.  Teachers generally have to teach toward the average student in the class and there is a difference in what that average is between different schools.

But in general your experiences outside the classroom are what gives you skills and getting those experiences are more a result of who you know that who was teaching you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MattWilsontv Good advice.  I wish I had made better use of networking when I was getting my undergrad degree.  Having studied at both a Community College and at Harvard, there is some difference in what is taught.  Teachers generally have to teach toward the average student in the class and there is a difference in what that average is between different schools.</p>
<p>But in general your experiences outside the classroom are what gives you skills and getting those experiences are more a result of who you know that who was teaching you.</p>
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		<title>By: @MattWilsontv</title>
		<link>http://www.productivity501.com/how-important-college/2072/comment-page-1/#comment-116320</link>
		<dc:creator>@MattWilsontv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.productivity501.com/?p=2072#comment-116320</guid>
		<description>Business majors-- sure learn the theories, read the books... BUT:

It&#039;s about what you do outside the classroom, developing yourself, meeting people, tapping into your alum... Think they teach anything different at Harvard than they do at Community College? Nope, but it&#039;s about the networking that you can tap at HBS.  Everyone&#039;s parents are doctors and lawyers, it&#039;s globally known, you can walk in the door anywhere.

Even if you go to a small school, tap that network!  The more people you talk to, the luckier you get</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Business majors&#8211; sure learn the theories, read the books&#8230; BUT:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s about what you do outside the classroom, developing yourself, meeting people, tapping into your alum&#8230; Think they teach anything different at Harvard than they do at Community College? Nope, but it&#8217;s about the networking that you can tap at HBS.  Everyone&#8217;s parents are doctors and lawyers, it&#8217;s globally known, you can walk in the door anywhere.</p>
<p>Even if you go to a small school, tap that network!  The more people you talk to, the luckier you get</p>
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